This article is a supplement to my previous article on the Freeman on the Land or Sovereign Citizen Movements. In part inspired from CBC’s The Current that I was listening to on the radio.
I think the greatest contribution of the FMOTL (Freeman On The Land) movement is giving people the courage to stand up and not just knuckle under, to ask questions and not just accept the status quo. Granted I have yet to see any of their arguments work in court as laid out by some of the bigger names in the movement, aka Menard, etc. I am not against the Freeman crowd and in fact think that they are a good thing as they do rock the boat (always a good thing in any society) and also get people to question the system. Word of warning though I think that quite a few of them are dreaming in color and that they think that the whole concept is a way to get rich quick or magically get out of debt. Some might even think they don’t have to obey laws in regards to driving or occupying property, etc. That being said though the real serious ones will warn people that you are responsible for yourself and if you get into an accident through your own neglect there is no insurance and that YOU are on the hook to compensate injured parties. The FMOTL also encompasses sovereign citizen movement , Natural Persons as a catchall for the purposes of this article. Granted though there are some crucial differences between the various terms. A quick disclaimer, in Canada most FMOTL individuals do not use paper liens like those in the United States as a form of so called “paper terrorism”. Knowing your rights in EU.
However (yeah I love that word) there are no absolutes. People have had victories in court using some of the techniques as long as they don’t try to hide behind the so called “Free Man” status. The FMOTL are dead on when they place emphasis on knowing and understanding legal terms. As this IS where people do get themselves into hot water. Thus why anyone who can afford it would be smart to hire lawyers whose job it is to know and understand these words. This article is going to be a bit lengthy as it wouldn’t be fair to the whole FMOTL crowd or their detractors to break it down into crayon. But I’ll still keep the garbly gook to a minimum. Links provided throughout to pro, con and otherwise.
In Poland during the Solidarity Movement the government was fully within it’s rights and powers to go in there and mow em all down. Now before people flip out, I dont agree with that kind of thing. LEGALLY they did have the right. MORALLY no. I think perhaps the greatest danger of Freeman on the Land is really that they can upset the status quo even though legally speaking they are pretty much wrong on many of their assertions. But when enough people stand up… things change. Solidarity for the most part was non violent (on the protestors side of things) and what happened was that the government blinked. Perhaps this is what scares “the system” the most. In the United States the so called Sovereign Citizen Movement is on the FBI’s “domestic terrorism list”. In the vast majority of these cases this is unnecessary overkill and an attempt to demonize. Throughout history those who challenged the status quo in their respective societies have been threatened by violence from the establishment.
I’ve been looking into this “Freeman” or Freeman on the Land, et all for about 10 years now and have personally found some things that do work and those that don’t. There is some merit to what they claim but it’s not a silver bullet. Just don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. I emphasize personally as it’s something I’ve directly tried and succeeded or failed with.
For those still into the left/right way of thinking I’ll put in some Glenn Beck followed by Thom Hartmann and their takes on “Sovereign Citizens”
The advice they give about getting a copy of the Bill of Rights, The Constitution and other like documents is a really great thing. Everyone can benefit from knowing and understanding their rights and not just knuckling under. In this way it can be empowering.
Not being subject to something you didnt sign or asking for proof (in most cases debt). Again nothing wrong with that. What can be wrong with asking a credit company or collection agency for proof. They aren’t infallible and mistakes can be made. I’ve used some of the techniques (while NEVER claiming to be a Freeman on The Land or Sovereign Citizen) to some success.
For instance: when my first marriage broke up I had credit card agencies try to get me to pay for my ex-wife’s debts. I did the old “show me proof that the debt is mine” which they couldn’t. The various groups tried to strong arm me into it so I asked if they had my signature on any loans or paperwork or anything showing that they were joint accounts or that I actually had access to any. Which they couldn’t. So I was off the hook for what wasn’t my debt to begin with. I’ll give the FOTL crowd some credit for that as before I read their information I might have been inclined to just think that maybe thats just the way it goes. Keep in mind though some states (or other areas) do have a difference between Common Law or Community Property based laws. Do your homework. Some states have both spouses as being responsible for each others debts most do not (again there are exceptions). But I asked questions, didn’t just roll over and made some demands. The following are just a few real life examples of using some of the ideas of FMOTL that I found inspiring and worked. Not huge earth shattering events but helpful all the same.
One time I had a Book of the Month Club say I owed them about 35 bucks. Funny I bought all of the
books accordingly and well within the time limit and met all the conditions. The club said because there was a cancellation fee that I owed the money. Again I asked for proof , providing them with my contact details, fax number etc. They wouldn’t provide any so I sent them a copy of the original agreement and it didn’t have anything (even in the fine print) about “cancellation fees”. They didn’t like that I refused to pay something that wasn’t in a contract or agreed too previously. I told them take me to court then if you want. Fast forward about a year I get a call for a collection agency. The agent I spoke with was really nice and courteous I spoke with them about why I wouldn’t pay and sent them a copy of the original agreement and asked if they could provide any proof that I owed a cancellation fee, that if they could I would gladly pay it. After a bit of back and forth they told me not to worry about it and the case was closed as far as they were concerned with no marks on my credit history. Good to their word there never was, I also sent a nasty-gram to the book club saying that if they did try to put a mark on my credit rating for their own oversight I would see them in court. To their credit there wasn’t.
In 2008 I had lost my job (along with millions of other people) during the economic crash. I was lucky to have government job loss insurance which I had paid into but never used until then. Eventually I found another job and cancelled the claim. About 6 months later the government agency claimed I owed X amount of dollars. So again asked for proof of debt and started reading every act I could find on it (another good piece of advice from the FMOTL folks). After about 8 months of back and forth letters I finally got a hearing from a panel. The outcome: I wind up owing not even a third of what they said I originally owed. You can’t fight city hall but that doesn’t mean you have to get fucked by them either. I didn’t agree with the outcome and even had an accountant that I know take a look at their math and he didn’t see it either. One of the panel agreed but said there was little else she could do about it. Which is fine as I felt at least somewhat of a victory in that I kept them off my back for almost a year and wound up only having to pay a third. Nothing is absolute and noone should have to just roll over and take it. But you really have to pick your battles. The amount I did wind up paying was alot more manageable than what was originally asked for. And it was a case of picking my battles. It would really have cost me more in the long run that what was “owed” finally.
Going back to the break up of my first marriage. During the lengthy and hellish back and forth of divorce proceedings I was able to get out of paying any kind of alimony but had no problem paying child support, you should support your children regardless. At one point during the proceeding I said, “what if I quite my job?” To which I was told I couldn’t. So throwing in some of the FOTL stuff I said, “ I am not chattel or an indentured servant, you cannot force me to work“. Well you’d have thought that someone put an electric charge through everyone’s chairs. All of a sudden the judge became much politer the lawyers started shuffling papers and saying “oh that’s not what were saying at all sir”. Funny it went from people I don’t know addressing me by my full Christian name (which is usually the sole domain of my mother lol) to calling me Sir.
Long story short, I was treated allot better after that and things eventually got settled in a equitable manner.
Parking tickets. Again know your local laws! In the area where I live I have gotten myself and a few others out of parking tickets.
What works where I live might not work where you live. At the post office I liked to park where it says “Employees Only” just to test things. There had been a few choice words that staff there had for me so I asked where the by-law enforcement number is on the sign. We now have an understanding that I only park there when there is no other spaces available and they don’t bother me with it if I do park there, lol.
It was pretty straight forward. If there is no by-law enforcement number on the no parking sign then its a suggestion. Simple as that (in the area I live in). Take a picture of where you were parked, take a picture of the sign. Go to court the ticket gets tossed out. Again though I can’t emphasize enough.. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS AND LOCAL LAWS!
Mr.K has also had some successes in his various business dealings (as a landlord) and sometimes disagreements with local city “officials”. As he is also a student of the FMOTL concepts and picks and chooses what may work in his own individual situations. One of his favorite pastimes is to sit in court (sometimes as a participant lmao) to watch Freeman or Natural Persons cases taking notes on what works and what doesn’t.
Realize this ain’t no new thing though as the media would allege. Its been around a long time and with mixed (not always good) results.
Having a Social Security Number or Social Insurance Number.
I do know of ONE person who has gotten out of it after years of going through the courts in the pre-internet days. I was warned by this person though that there is no safety net after doing this and if you ever go back “they” will slap the shit out of you. Employment Insurance back payments, taxes,etc.
The best thing anyone could do is to never get one in the first place. In some countries this is actually impossible as one is assigned at birth. However if you have to apply for one to get one the solution is never to apply for one. Have a job or trade where you can be paid cash or “compensation for skills and hours”. Its not under the table if you barter or don’t have a SIN or SSN number to begin with. Living “off the grid” is not easy or glamorous but is possible to do! For our American readers here is a great article for working with SSN.
Some of the bigger claims of sovereign citizen (or Freeman on the Land) claims: If I am wrong on this please do email with proof: for instance actual court documents or real results, not conjecture.
Birth Certificate as a bond (or negotiable security,etc). Some claim you can actually cash this in or it’s a link to a government bond taken out either for you or you as the collateral, etc. I tried this out and it’s a bunch of bunk as far as I can tell, even asked around with people who deal in bonds, stocks etc and that feel the stock market is a scam- so sympathetic to any angle they can weasel out of the system. No dice. It’s B.S. Here’s a link to some pretty big claims, they also have some spelling mistakes and rip off the Grateful Dead logo. Not that I don’t have some bad grammar and spelling myself but I’m not passing off a fancy website and selling shit either.
1933 Banking Act (USA)- I wont get to hardcore into this one but here is a lowdown on it. Anti FMOTL and Pro FMOTL.
Notice of Intent/Claim of Right
there are many variations on this and boils down to a document that one gets Notarized by a Notary Public that outlines ones claim to be a “sovereign” or “natural person”,etc.
Adoption by Native American groups in order to gain “sovereignty“. An interesting concept and has worked to some degree for individuals. Again do your homework.
There is quite a bit to the whole phenomenon. Just realize that there is no magic money waiting for you out there or a discharge of debt (various conditions apply) and if someone is going to go down the path to being a Natural Person, Sovereign Citizen, Free Man on the Land, etc you better do your homework. It is fraught with peril, hucksters and people who don’t know what they are talking about either deliberately or purposefully! There is excellent information out there and if anything from all of it you will learn your rights (some most don’t even know about) and in the very least learn how to stand up for yourself. The FMOTL types also if anything expose inconsistency and flaws in the system which in my books can only be a good thing. Anything that causes us to question and not just blindly follow is a healthy thing.
One of the only people out there that are having some “proven” success (that anyone can check out through court records,etc) is Irene Gravenhorst , she has a different name she calls herself but I’m not even going to go there. This is also where it helps to be First Nations status. HOWEVER that just lands you into a whole different set of circumstances, treaties and other obligations. There’s no free ride folks.
Thanks for tuning in. -EvS